Below follows a discourse between someone reading for the first time the doctrines of God's Sovereignty and Predestination in my book God and Evil and also in my book The Sovereignty of God. This information is all new to him, but he is beginning to see God's Majesty while it will take time to work out the kinks of unlearning humanistic false doctrine and the wrong ways of looking at things, as we all must so unlearn in many areas.
Person X:
I am reading your books that you sent and finding them full of information. I am currently reading God and Evil and understand where evil came from and how it is God that chooses what eyes are opened and whose eyes remain shut.
On the matter of choice what did joshua mean when he said to the israelites to choose you this day whom you will serve when it is God who chooses whose eyes are opened and whose eyes are shut? these are just questions that keep popping in my head striving for understanding.
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my reply/comment:
Understand, we all make decisions, and in that context, we all make choices, but that is entirely different from having a free will independent of God's Will.
If I tell someone to pick up that granite boulder weighing 6 tons and he uses a crane to pick it up, did he or did he not pick it up? He did pick it up, but by another power; also, it was his will, but he was operating under someone else's will (order), his boss who told him to do it.
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Person X:
i don't know if you have addressed the questions on choice in your book for i had to ask before i forgot what i would be asking for there is so much knowledge in these books i don't know if i can store it all sure hope so back to reading. alan breitenstein
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my reply/comment:
Well, often when there is something new (that is, new to a person's first learning of it and then studying it), the sheer amount of information and how it harmonizes with other truth may seem overwhelming, but the more you study and see the logic of it, you will see how it all fits together as your mind learns to draw associations and it will be far easier to remember, because you will see the destination, not merely the directions. Furthermore, the situation is compounded when what one has been taught from childhood, is largely in error; then one has to compare everything one learns with what one already knows, and if two things are blatantly contradictory, the spurious idea has to be discarded and truth rightfully put in its place. This can be difficult, for we are creatures of habit. We are used to walking into the bathroom and switching on the light switch without even thinking about it. When the power goes out for whatever reason, I will find myself walking into the bathroom and hitting the light switch even though I know that the power is of, and even though I remember (a half second after I hit the dead switch) that the previous 4 times the light did not come on because the power is out. Eventually I remember (just before the power comes back on). Even more difficult, it is, if this same "curve ball" of change is instituted in the work place or in school. If your boss or instructor tells you, "Okay everyone, I know this ______________ is the way we have always done this..., but that all is going to change and from now on, we are going to do it this way _______________ instead." It takes a little time for old habits to "extinguish" and the new to become natural. This can be clearly understood in dozens of areas of life. If there is a route you drive daily, and you find that one section of the road is closed, it may take a little time for you to remember (especially if there are lots of other things on your mind competing for that spot of "forefront priority" in your thinking). This is simple "Classical Conditioning". So realize that there is a "learning curve" and period of time of adjustment, as one learns new information and inserts it into ones mind construct, replacing old, invalid ideas. Keep at it. As you read, pray, "God, teach me truth; lead me into all truth and engraft it to my heart and mind so that I may better obey, serve, and honor You."
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Person X:
Robert, i want to see if i got this right on predestination. God has His chosen people, He also has His chosen people of perdition.
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my reply/comment:
God predestined the elect to salvation and the nonelect (everyone else) to perdition (that is, all those others who actually have spirits that survive the death of the body).
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Person X:
So of His chosen people {not of perdition} He has His elect and they are just a remnant and the others He has divided into two groups , those whom He has blinded and put a deluding influence in their mind and those who are slumbering. The elect are the hot and the ones with a deluding influence are the cold and those that slumber are the lukewarm. Now the lukewarm can begin to see if they listen to those that are hot and if they don't they will be spit out of God's mouth.
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my reply/comment:
It is not as easily compartmentalized as this. Clearly somewhere between hot and lukewarm are the majority of the elect. Were it not so, there would be no one who would (as Christ revealed) be called "least" in the Kingdom.
There are different levels of honor among the elect. We cannot dissect such things as only God's Holy Spirit can discern the thoughts and intents of the heart. Clearly there may be some of the elect, who are yet unconverted, who are the "cold"; while there may be some who think that they are converted, who are cold, who are not truly converted; they are spiritually dead.
Those of the elect who are not converted are not merely slumbering, but are dead in their trespasses and sins until Christ by His Holy Spirit, quickens them. Those who are lukewarm, likewise, may be either those who are of the non-elect, or those who are of the elect who have not yet been converted. If they remain unconverted, they will be rejected (spewed out) and have no part in Christ.
The wind bloweth where it listeth (determines).... so is everyone that is born of the Spirit.
Revelation 3 informs us:
14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; 15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
First of all, understand that this is a parable or analogy, and therefore, by its very nature, it is not intended to be a blanket truth that applies to every conceivable element in every possible situation. Most often parables and analogies are intended to convey truth in a few specific, limited areas.
It appears that all 3 groups of which Christ speaks are truly converted. This indictment is written to the Church of Laodicea. However, the "church" does not refer to the church building, or any modern fictitious entity of a "corporation". The "corporation" to which the letter was written was the corporal body of believers. Again, cold and lukewarm appear to be referring to believers. As I initially expressed, if all true believers were hot, then there would be no one who would be considered "least" in the Kingdom. If the cold referred to those who were unconverted, then why would Christ wish that the lukewarm were unconverted?
It seems that both the cold and lukewarm in this analogy are those believers who are nearly spiritually dead, carnal, worldly, disinterested in the things of God, God not being in their minds, selfish, sin-laden, self-interested... and it appears that they are so because (as in our current age, as as we will consider elsewhere in this discussion) they grew fat and lazy and indifferent because of all the blessings that God bestowed, and they then apostatized.
However, the difference between the two appears to be that while the cold make no pretense to spirituality, living utterly secular as if God and His Word and Holiness and Judgment do not even exist, the lukewarm feign a facade in maintaining a false appearance of their continued servitude to God through a thin, watered-down ritual, going through the motions, pretending to do what was required just enough and no more, to squeak by and fool themselves into thinking that they were actually pleasing God and hoping to fool God also. These are Pharisees, in a sense: white-washed sepulchres full of dead men's bones. This can be compared to many of the dead-hearted Israelites in the Old Testament who merely went through the motions of obedience, when their hearts were not in it. For this reason God declared that He hated their Sabbaths and New Moons and Feasts and even sacrifices of animals. God commanded and instituted all these things, So God was not declaring that He hated those things in and of themselves, but He hated the Israelites' dead-hearted false observance of them, a mere "compliance" rather than true conformity and true conversion, making those things an integral part of their lives, joyfully (even as some gave begrudgingly only that merest amount that was required, while God says that He loves a cheerful giver).
Christ declares that He wishes that the lukewarm were cold, for in reality, spiritually, they are no different. However, the Lukewarm are an added insult to Christ, in that they show clearly that they know what is right and they know how to do it and they can even go through the motions of doing it, but they really don't want to, they really don't care, and they only do it minimally to hopefully prevent being scolded.
Thus, in closer examination of the analogy of hot, lukewarm, and cold, it appears that all 3 groups are those who are converted, though only those who hot are honorable and are the only ones who will receive honor.
While indeed there are others who are unconverted, who appear no different than those who are cold or lukewarm believers, we really cannot discern whether they are converted or not, because only God knows the heart.
Therefore, this analogy does not appear to be differentiating between the elect and the non-elect, but different levels among the elect.
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Person X:
For you see i just keep seeing this as a choice even though it really isn't a choice for who in their right mind would willingly go for destruction over the grace of God?
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my reply/comment:
exactly, and those in ignorance cannot truly choose that which they are utterly ignorant concerning.... those who are dead cannot choose to come back to life. God declared that there is none that doeth good NO NOT ONE and that there are NONE who seek after God. Those who believe otherwise call God a liar and wallow in the delusion of their own self-goodness. Anything in us that causes us to seek after God and do good is only because of the quickening of the Holy Spirit. Christ said that no man cometh unto the Father except through Him; and that no man cometh unto Christ except the (Spirit of) Father draw him. Humanists do not like to submit to God on both knees, they want some "bragging rights" and they refuse to prostrate themselves before the Lord of Creation, and instead merely "curtsy" out of feigned recognition, while retaining the false notion of their own sovereignty or the delusion of "co-sovereignty".
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Person X:
for if this isn't the right reasoning then what is the elect's job[,] for isn't [it?] rebuking and getting the Word of God out to the [yet uncoverted or sinful members of His] chosen [so that they can know and follow] His will?
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my reply/comment: [brackets above mine for attempted clarity?]
??? will guess at what you are saying
Our job is to obey God. He controls the harvest. We are to be faithful in all things that He has commanded. Yes, we are commanded to preach and teach, to be instant (ever ready) in season and out (all the time) and exhort and admonish our brethren who are in blindness and/or rebellion and lead them to the Mercy Seat and Throne of God. But we do and can do nothing other than to be faithful. God's Holy Spirit is the animating and convicting force that will enlighten and bring any person to repentance and obedience. However, God uses His children who are honorable vessels to play a minor role in the accomplishing of His Will, and thereby, receive blessing and reward and honor of God in the Kingdom and even in this life. However, this is entirely different than the some rabid individuals of certain demon-inations (who are deluded into thinking that they are hot) who think that it is their job to go out and "save everyone"—but this is not Biblical. We are to be faithful to preach to truth to Christ's sheep, and not to the dogs or swine—but God controls the harvest.
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Person X:
When I was growing up there were ten children in our family and dad was the only one who supported us and now two parents are working just to make ends meet for even 1 child .
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my reply/comment:
yes, what are considered "priorities" have changed... and all the factors that have manipulated this delusion and change result in God's people now having to "make bricks without straw (being provided for them, that is, collecting ON THEIR OWN TIME the straw needed to make the bricks, without the daily tally of bricks being dimished)". Many of the factors that result in having to work so hard to have so little to show for it are: over-taxation by a corrupt government, importation of aliens and deportation of our jobs and wealth overseas, seduction of individuals and corporations into debt; seduction of individuals into thinking that we need so many things that we do not need (the confusion of luxuries with needs; and a corrupt, illegitimate government mandating a plethora of things that it has no authority to require, to individuals or business); the overcharging by doctors, drug companies, and insurance companies who are all in bed together with the government to keep prices artificially over-inflated to cripple the common man, keep him in fear, in subservience;* lawyers like greedy scavengers feeding off the bodies of those who are not even dead yet, who participate in reducing freedom to a legal fishing snarl of an obstacle course through which each individual must attempt to transport himself; godless, immoral humanism in the schools, media, an government brainwashing the populace from youth upwards, blind or evil shepherds from the pulpit preaching the same evil, godless humanism and twisting the Scriptures in the attempt to make it look palpable, etc.
[* I talked to a guy in town just the other day and he said that it takes about 40% of his paycheck just to pay for all the insurance he carries: health, life, car, home, etc. He said, it didn't used to be this way, not even 15 years ago.]
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Person X:
What led to this downfall of grace [and the many symptoms of it, such as the taking of] Prayer out of schools,
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my reply/comment: [brackets above mine for attempted clarity?]
??? will guess at what you are saying
God's people grew complacent on the abundance of blessings that He gave us and they began to compromise [that is, they became lax and began to obey God less and less, serving themselves and/or other gods more and more), which continually leads to more compromise which eventually leads to what we have in our generation—utter apostasy.
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Person X:
the wars being fought especially the civil war when our people are killing our own brothers all at the satisfaction of the antichrists, or men having it so well that they actually believed their success was do [due] to there [their] own accomplishments rather than God's.
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my reply/comment: [brackets above mine for attempted clarity?]
??? will guess at what you are saying
Again, we took God's blessings for granted, worshipped the blessing rather than the Blesser, became complacent, then sinful, thus judgment from God results according to the Law of the Harvest: You reap what you sow. Continuing within the analogy of sowing and reaping, even if you sow nothing, you will reap. If you do not sow good seed and do not weed your garden—it will become overgrown with weeds, even noxious ones, and it will soon choke out and kill all the good seed in the garden. Sowing bad seed, of course, speeds up the inevitable of sowing no seed at all.
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Person X:
I also understand that God gets the glory and not man ,for man is arrogant enough to take all the credit for a change and that is why God just has a remnant and He will choose who becomes unblinded for He tests the heart and mind to see who is humble or proud.
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my reply/comment:
Those who are dead cannot choose to come back to life. God quickens them. A fetus does not choose to be conceived, and an infant does not choose to be born. A doctor or midwife or father delivers the child, and then even gives him a slap on the hind end to cause him to take the first breath of life, whereby he cries out and receives new life. So it is with any individual upon conversion. God chooses, God quickens / imparts life whereby, the person, in profound recognition of his own futile and fatal sinfulness and depravity, cries out in repentance unto life, confessing his unworthiness and sin and asking for mercy and forgiveness and new life.
God determines all... it SEEMS to man as if man chooses his own way, but that is the true crossroads: whether a person continues in delusion thinking that he rules his own life; or whether he realizes that God is Sovereign, and submits to God and endeavors to walk in the Spirit where God is going. Deluded 5-year old think that they are in charge; even when they play "house" or "doctor" they really think they are doing those things. It is no different with "spiritual 5-year-olds"; who constitute the majority of Christians, never progressing from the milk of the Word, never maturing beyond infantile spiritual thought.
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Person X:
Maybe i answered my questions just not 100 percent sure but i will continue until i know the Truth.
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my reply/comment:
You're getting there... the more you read, study, meditate on God's Word it will sink in and the pieces will fall together, as you pray that God leads and teaches you and that He reveals Truth and causes it to become part of you. Robert
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Person X:
that answer [concerning God determining all] is what despairs me for why did that all come about ? was it through our choice or was it God hardening our hearts as He did pharoah? for if it was God hardening our hearts that is what i fear the most for in revelations [The Book of Revelation] He said that even some of the elect would be deceived by the signs coming. and if it happened by our choice then we do have a choice . you know after thinking about this i don't know if i could call this a choice for if it was a choice then we would be contemplating on God's laws of which obviously that didn't happen. now as i write this i remember that in times when i was about to do things i shouldn't have God's law did come to mind and i did not follow the law and the reason the law came to mind was because God put it there. this is where confusion sets in.
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my reply/comment: [brackets above mine for attempted clarity?]
Actually, no, it is not in Revelation, but Matthew 24:24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
when read correctly, it is saying that their deception will be so convincing, that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE [that is, if God did not preserve them] the very elect would be deceived. This, however, is a very specific passage and the deception is in the key area of believing in a false christ who will pretend to be the real Christ having returned. But as Christ said, His sheep KNOW HIS VOICE and the VOICE OF A STRANGER they will NOT follow. Those who are not truly converted, who don't truly know the Word of God (only knowing disjointed bits and pieces out of context, on the superficial level of "verse of the day" on a calendar". However, Scripture also informs us that those mindless souls who will follow the false Christ, will do so because GOD HIMSELF will send them strong delusion to believe a lie SO THAT THEY MIGHT BE DAMNED (II Thessalonians 2:11,12).
If you continue to "DESPAIR" you will continue to be emotionally overcome. Despair in this matter is HUMANISM. You can't increase your stature by one foot nor change your hair's color by sheer will power of your mind. GOD IS SOVEREIGN, whether you despair or not. Unless you plan on changing sides and joining with Satan in the attempt to overthrow God, then stop despairing and start TRUSTING in GOD'S GOODNESS, MERCY, WISDOM, HOLINESS, OMNIPOTENCE, and PERFECTION and trust that God will bless you as you, by the Grace of His Holy Spirit, walk in obedience to what you know His Word says, while you continue to study His Word so that you better understand it so that you can better obey Him.
When you were 1 day old, did you understand the world? would it have been rational of you to DESPAIR at one day old because you could not understand the world or even because to you it seemed to be unfair or had evil or injustice? (let's just presume you could understand anything at day one, or fast-forward to age 5).
God is in control. He said that He has done all things for His OWN Pleasure, so if you despair, you DOUBT HIS GOODNESS. Without faith it is impossible to please God. Understand, YES, we are to be DISGUSTED at the evil in this world. However, that is what God wants. God commanded us to HATE EVIL. God commanded us to be holy as He is Holy. Thus, if we are truly holy, if God's Holy Spirit is truly in us, it will result in righteous indignation, offended holiness, and cause us to cry out to God to deliver us from evil, and to destroy this evil from off the face of the earth because it is an affront to HIS Holiness. Unlike most immoral people who delude themselves into thinking that they are moral, they only care about evil when it affects them personally, when it kicks in the door of their house and ravages them; but they don't care about evil in general or in principle or in theory and they don't care about all the lives of their kinsmen that it is destroying and they don't care about its very existence and how it is an affront to a Holy God. As I have long written, "Why should God deliver us from that which we are willing to tolerate?" He won't. He will GIVE US MORE AND MORE OF IT until either we DO HATE IT, or until it destroys us. Thus is the pathology of the invasion of the Third World from whom God commanded us to be separate and not seek their peace or prosperity forever. Since we refused to obey and put a difference because God put a difference, and be holy because God made us holy and different and separated us at creation even as He separated clean from unclean animals (none evolving from any other) by the very act of distinct creation--therefore, God is inundating us with the sin we embraced, to the point that it acts as a polarizing element to cause His people to turn from it and cry unto God in repentance, or to die in the pestilence that was sent in judgment.
Whether God hardened 1 Pharaoh's heart or the hearts of everyone on earth is not the issue. God is Sovereign. ALL THE SOULS ARE MINE, He declared, and THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S AND THE FULLNESS THEREOF: THE WORLD AND ALL THEY WHO DWELL THEREIN. He foreknows everything because He planned it. His foreknowledge cannot be passive, because He is not passive, and if God's Foreknowledge was passive then God would be reactive and God is not reactive; and if reactive, God would not be Immutable.
God determined ALL. He does not usually interact directly, but uses various methods to achieve what He determined as He determined to achieve it. One of those means is to ordain for man to do everything that man does, and to also believe that he did so by his own choice. He does do it by his own choice, in that, in most cases, no one puts a gun to his head to make him violate the sabbath or eat a ham sandwich or lust after a woman. But hypocritically, arrogant man does not even understand that his choice is actually not his choice, while at times, that choice may be little more than being caught in the path of a gigantic mudslide or when the mighty Mississippi overflows its banks and carries everything in its path along with it. The powers which are unseen (God and the agents that He often uses) are far-more powerful than those elements that we do see.
However, clearly, in all those areas, many other persons are involved. A godless employer demanding his employees work on the Sabbath, corrupt politicians overtaxing and businesses overcharging, parents and the media and others teaching people to buy now and pay later and overextend themselves, a person's buddies wanting him to play ball, or friends inviting him over for a sports party, etc. all contribute to his choosing to break the Sabbath. God also uses Satan to tempt him and all the others involved. Yes, an individual himself makes the actual decision in his plane of existence, and in most cases, no one puts a gun to his head (but even if someone puts a gun to your head and orders you to do something that you know is wrong, you can still say "no"). But that decision any individual makes at any given time is not independent of God's Will, God's Determination, what God has ordained from the foundation of the world before anything existed other than God: no space, no time, no matter.
As I demonstrated above concerning all the factors and dynamic forces that may go into someone being tempted to violate what God commanded, it is far more complex than one person sitting on a deserted island in the middle of the ocean and choosing to break the Sabbath—so why is it so hard to believe that God orchestrated it all, even as He says that He did and even as logic proves that He did? God is Immutable. He does not change. He cannot react (otherwise, He would be mutable). Therefore, nothing writes its own script. God created everything that exists and nothing exists except that He created it... so nothing can evolve and come into being on its own (hence, sin and evil did not merely "happen" originally in general neither do they specifically in any situation in anything that man does or anything that any other thing does).
Perverse advertisers advertising what is sinful (ham sandwich 50% off on Saturday) and using sex and lust to sell everything, sinful and ignorant friends, family, food producers and servers endeavoring (with or without evil motive) to get others to eat pork and even HIDING pork in many foods that one would not think would contain pork, and a woman dressing and acting provocatively all influence (temptation) that person's decision to violate the dietary laws or commit adultery, etc.
Again, it is far more complex than an individual alone on an island. God ordains all and writes the script and casts the characters and directs the Drama and all perform exactly as He determined, not with strings like puppets by outward force, but by inward desire to think and do what He determined. Each person makes choices and is responsible for those choices, even though God determined what their choice would be, even as God hardened Pharaoh's heart and then punished him for having a hard heart. It is God who worketh in us to WILL and to DO of HIS GOOD PLEASURE.
Confusion sets in because you are more concerned (at the time that confusion sets in) with WHY you obey or disobey rather than your actual obeying or disobeying. Concentrate on "the what" of obeying by God's Power of the Holy Spirit in you and leave "the why" of the running of His universe up to Him.
You don't need to wonder whether it is your choice or God's Choice, it is BOTH—and yours is subservient to and dependent upon His, whether you are aware of that fact or not. All you need to concentrate on is obeying God. If you fall and sin, get back up, repent, confess your sins, and return to obeying by God's Grace in you. Ask God to change your choices if you make the wrong choices; ask Him to change your desires if you have the wrong desires; ask Him to change your thinking if you have the wrong thinking.
I would LOVE to have God tell me what to do in each and every situation so I make the right choice. Should I buy this washing machine or that washing machine or should I buy no washing machine but continue to "wash" and agitate by hand in the old washer that will only fill with water and empty with water and then wring the clothes by hand as I have been doing for nearly 2 years now...? I really would like to know because all I want to do is what He wants me to do and I certainly don't want to waste money on something that He does not want me to buy. But having God inform us of each and every specific thing that He wants us to do each day (even which clothes to wear for that day, when to eat, and what we should eat, if we should even eat at all or spend the day fasting) would not require any dedication in seeking His Will, meditating in prayer to learn that will, wanting to know His Mind, trusting in Him, drawing close to be able to know His Will in any given area. God does not want robots but sons. He wants sons that He can be proud of. Sons who make the right decisions and serve Him from the heart, desiring to know His Will and seeking it.
IT IS IRRELEVANT in terms of your daily living that God determined each step you make.
Before you make a single step, do you stop and realize that a neuron in your brain ignites and shoots an electrical spark from an axiom across a synapse to a dendrite (if I remember bio-chemistry properly, even crudely), which then sends an impulse to your arms and legs to move and your brain in the same manner sends another impulse to your heart and lungs to breathe and pump the oxygenated blood required for you to make those steps at the speed and under the circumstances that you make them? ...while also a complex bio-chemical-electro-magnetic symbiosis of minerals and hormones regulate a host of other processes, while your eyes focus in the direction that you are walking and the fluid in the Eustachian tubes in your ears help you to keep balanced, while your ears are alert to sounds around and your nerve endings are even sensitive to any abnormal vibrations or air currents in your environment so that you walk safely, while fluid in your body transmits with the minerals, electrical sparks in a complex array throughout each cell, and each cell is washed with water, bringing in nutrients and exporting waste material from each cell and cleanses your body through your liver, kidneys, and lungs so that your blood and bodily fluids are healthy so that your brain and heart and lungs and muscles and other organs can continue doing their jobs so that you can walk? That is just the tip of the iceberg.
Do you consciously think of all that before you take a step?
—or before you take a single step do you also think of all that went into making the shoes that you are wearing, the socks, the pavement under your feet, etc.? Before you take a step do you contemplate what the weather will be, whether Islam will invade, whether a dog will chase you or a criminal will mug you or whether there will be an earthquake or a flood?
God has ordained all and your understanding HOW he did and WHY He did and HOW that interfaces with you and what seems to be the choices that you make have to do with the SECRET Will of God which is none of our business because He has not revealed it to us. God informs us that we are to operate on a need to know basis... what He tells us we are to concern ourselves with and what He has not told us we are not to concern ourselves with. Yes, we can meditate on WHAT POSSIBLY may be some things that He has not told us, but that speculation is not to govern our lives in any way and it is not to be used to establish any doctrine (such speculation presented as fact is Mysticism).
Focus on Christ, not the wind and the waves. Focus on what the Master has commanded you and not what He has not commanded you and not what He has commanded other of His children/servants (like when Christ told Peter the death that Peter should die, and Peter looked at John who was following at a distance and asked whether John would likewise be martyred, Christ essentially told Peter that such information was none of his business and to concern himself with what Peter's revealed job was).
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Person X:
Thanks, it helps tremendously
When i used the word despair i really didn't mean to use that word for as soon as i wrote it i stopped and said to myself that he is going to put a lot of emphasis on that and i just let it go. so am i in despair no i am not i am enjoying everything that i read and hear.
what i was trying to say where you had question marks is what triggered the downfall of our nation but i am probably sure there were a number of things, the things i mentioned. thank you for answering i am understanding more each day...
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my reply/comment:
Again, those things that contributed to our downfall are, but not limited to: our growing complacent because of our blessings and not being diligent to obey God, and our "cutting corners" and becoming liberal and tolerant, which only leads to more disobedience and then total apostasy. Blindness as to our national identity was then easy to manipulate, since most "Christians" think that the "jews" are Israel and that we must help them or God will curse us (when the opposite is reality), and not understanding that God's Command concerning our being kind to strangers refers only to kinsmen; and thinking that God abolished His own Law, which keeps us in perpetual sin so that not only does God not hear our prayers, but He will chasten us to repentance (even through invasion of our enemies and destruction of the true church and nation from within)... we then adopted humanistic interpretations of the Word of God... then utterly secular and immoral pseudo-philosophies replaced the modernistic humanistic pseudo-interpretations of God's Word... all these things were vile ingredients that went into the apostasy stew that is destroying Christendom as a result of God's Judgment upon us until we truly repent (and God's people cannot repent if they do not realize that they are in sin, and if they don't read God's Word and realize that from cover to cover it is God's Will for us, not 3/4 of it being mere antiquated literature).
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Person X:
Robert i am 62 yrs old and i have read books and gone to churches and listened to tapes of churches and i have never caught the message that you bring... and now i am finally understanding what i have been looking for. have you ever gone browsing in stores and when asked what are you looking for and my answer is i'll know it when i see it.
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my reply/comment:
yes, and just yesterday I was browsing in town to kill time for a few minutes and was asked if I needed help and I said that I wasn't looking for anything in particular, but I will know it when it jumps out and grabs me.
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Person X:
I NOW SEE IT. I have been praying to God to wake His people up and He is starting with me.
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my reply/comment:
Great
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Person X:
I feel why why couldn't i see this earlier in my life and now i know that it wasn't the intentions of my King.
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my reply/comment:
Exactly, all operates according to His timetable... and as Scripture says, we are to be renewed by the washing of the water and the Word. One quick dip in the pool cannot cleanse a lifetime of accumulated dirt, and likewise, a casual reading of the Word of God every now and then will not cleanse the mind; it has to be bathed continually in the truth, as the waves of the ocean wash upon the shore, polishing and refining and removing all debris and honing off all sharp edges of shells and even glass, until they are smooth and shine.
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Person X:
I have never seen this message and i mean never . I have always looked elsewhere for explanation of the Bible and some of what i got i know now it was nothing but false doctrine and i filled my mind with it because it seemed right. i thank God that He has led me to you and others for i was dormant for awhile and now i feel alive.
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my reply/comment:
Glad to hear it... but understand, Satan will do his best to deceive you, turn you from the path, persecute you, trouble you, derail you and God uses that to test your resolve and strengthen and refine you; even as gravity on earth is the pressure that makes our bones and muscles strong; if we were raised on the moon, our bodies would be like jellyfish. So it is with character and so it is with the true spiritual man. Robert