— Deliverance or Delusion...? Which do we want...? Part III - Will God's People rise up against the Tares? and what is the purpose of the fire Christ said He would send...?

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Deliverance or Delusion...? Which Do We Want...?  Part 2
Will God's People rise up against the Tares? and what is the purpose of the fire Christ said He would send...?


[I had emailed someone, finally, after his repeated emails which declared that God's people were going to eventually rise up, and I briefly said:]

God's people will not rise up; it is too far gone; our ONLY hope is to repent and ONLY THEN will Christ return with His holy angels to uproot the tares and every plant His Heavenly Father has not planted. Robert


[He replied:]

Well, then why did Jesus make this statement: “I am come to send fire on the earth, and what will I, if it be already kindled?  (Luke 12:49)  Who are those that are at work, “gathering the kindling” necessary for that “fire” to burn?  


[All that follows below was my answer to this, and I have decided to add it as Part III to my booklet; Deliverance or Delusion...? —Which Do We Want...? (Order it here):]
You misunderstand the meaning of the passage.
One cannot take one solitary passage (especially taking it out of context) and misapply it ignoring the rest of Scripture on the topic.  Each verse of Scripture is not its "own little Bible" but is in complete harmony with the whole; and the rest of Scripture clearly reveals that the Remnant of the Elect will not "rise up"—but will nearly be exterminated by the enemy—and only by God's Grace, upon their true repentance, will Christ return to DELIVER them.  The purpose of the current evil / Judgment we are under is to separate the wheat from the chaff.  This is entirely different than the burning of the tares which Christ spoke of in Matthew.  The chaff are "cannon fodder"—those of God's people who are so utterly carnal kernals of wheat (the dead, hard, outer shell surrounding the wheat) that they will not be spared the coming Judgment, but who will be consumed (all those who attempt to save their life—live carnally for self—shall lose it, and those who lose it for Christ's sake, shall save it).

[Chaff is separated from the wheat by threshing, then winnowing.  Easton Bible Dictionary explains {note, in Scripture when corn is mentions, it means kernels or grain, not the corn we think of today, which was unknown in that part of the world in that day}:

"The process of threshing was performed generally by spreading the sheaves on the threshing-floor and causing oxen and cattle to tread repeatedly over them (Deuteronomy 25:4; Isaiah 28:28).  On occasions flails or sticks were used for this purpose (Ruth 2:17; Isaiah 28:27).  There was also a “threshing instrument” (Isaiah 41:15; Amos 1:3) which was drawn over the corn.  It was called by the Hebrews a moreg, a threshing roller or sledge (2 Samuel 24:22; 1 Chronicles 21:23; Isaiah 3:15).  ....When the grain was threshed, it was winnowed by being thrown up against the wind (Jeremiah 4:11), and afterwards tossed with wooden scoops (Isaiah 30:24).  The shovel and the fan for winnowing are mentioned in Psalm 35:5, Job 21:18, Isaiah 17:13.  The refuse of straw and chaff was burned (Isaiah 5:24).  Freed from impurities, the grain was then laid up in granaries."

Clearly the threshing process is violent which breaks away the chaff from the wheat (similarly, Christ said that God's people are the salt of the earth (salt preserves meat because it kills bacteria), but if the salt has lost its savor (by being contaminated by not being separate) it is good for nothing (not even for fertilizer or for use on the dung hill) but to be cast out and trodden under the foot of man.  It is also clear that it is God's Holy Spirit (the wind) that separates the wheat from the chaff (and this itself is clear proof of predestination).  Further, note that the wheat will not rise up against the tares; that is the job of the husbandman.]


Only when CHRIST PHYSICALLY RETURNS will the tares be uprooted from the wheat (and we won't be the ones doing the removing).  WE cannot discern 100% of the time who the tares are (yes, we can discern in many cases, but after millennia of our violating God's command, "come out from among them and be ye separate and touch not [attach not yourselves to] the unclean and I will accept you" the result of nonseparation  has been so vast that only GOD knows who are His people and who are not and He does not want even one innocent wheat to be uprooted by mistake and He certainly does not want a single well-camouflaged tare to remain and He clearly said it was not our job to try to uproot them).


There is no need to "gather kindling;" that notion ignores the power of God (Elijah built a stone altar, drenched it with 12 pitchers of water (probably 36 gallons) over the sacrifice, wood, and stones, and which then filled the moat that had been dug around the altar, and God consumed it all with no kindling whatsoever—sacrifice, wood, stones, dust, and water....!). 


Thinking that we need to gather kindling shows a basic misunderstanding of the very purpose of the fire Christ spoke of and it ignores the mission Christ gave to us. 


Christ is not going to build a campfire to roast weenies. 


A forest fire that ravages vast portions of states here in the U.S. requires no kindling to be gathered; all the kindling is already there naturally in place and all that is needed is the introduction of fire at the right time in the right place. 


THE ENTIRE EARTH will be consumed with unquenchable fire, there is no need for kindling to be gathered and the job of GOD'S PEOPLE is not to gather kindling, but to GATHER THE LOST SHEEP.  It is a dereliction of duty to gather kindling.  NOWHERE is it commanded and it is irrational thinking (a false assumption of illogic) as well as a violation of the commands we have been given to busy ourselves with vague assumptions of commands we were not given.  When Christ, in a private conversation, told Peter that Peter would die a martyr's death, Peter, looking behind, saw the Apostle John and asked, "What about him...?"  Christ basically replied, "What business is that of yours? —concern yourself with the business that I HAVE given to YOU."


Christ said that those who do not gather with Him (gather His SHEEP, not kindling) actually labor against Him to undo His work (whether they "intend" to undo his work or not is irrelevant; it is the natural result.

[A child yelling in the alps in winter wanting to hear his own echo does not intend to murder an entire village with an avalanche, but that may be the end result of his actions; a person who has had a frontal lobotomy, who has had the corpus callosum surgically severed, separating the 2 hemispheres of the brain from being able to communicate and share certain information on a normal basis, is the poster-child of the Biblical suggestion that (in context concerning the giving of alms) let not the left hand know what the right hand does; people who have had frontal lobotomies (usually to elimniate the "white noise or static" and confusion produced in the brains of some people which results in epileptic seizures) will actually be buttoning their shirt with their right hand while the left hand is unbuttoning the shirt.  Without communication, the one hand is undoing the other's work.  That is not the intention; but it is reality.]


We (those of the true church) are all members of Christ's body and if we are not in tune with the Head, we cannot possibly know what His Will is, let alone be doing it; and if we are not doing His Will, we are working against Him—not to His hurt, but to our own (Judgment) and to the hurt of our own people whom we should be rescuing from drowning in the water—not running over their heads with the rowboat while foolishly looking for driftwood instead of survivors of Adam's shipwreck.
The whole earth will be consumed with fire (our GOD is a CONSUMING FIRE, no need for gathering kindling, that is myopic)... No one is "at work gathering the kindling" nor is there need for such—the entire earth is strewn nearly every square foot with kindling (though none is needed) even as what is left of a trailer park on the edge of the woods is strewn with debris after a tornado... The entire earth has been morally strewn with corruption as a result of the sin of GOD'S PEOPLE who themselves have carnal, hardened, calloused hearts (thinking that they themselves "fart cotton candy", as I have expressed in some of my books; though humorous or even a little crude, it is true nonetheless and hopefully serves to get many Christians attention).
WE ALL are in sin; WE ALL need to repent (even the best of us); God said there is none that doeth good, no not one; and Paul himself said, I know that in me dwelleth no good thing and that would which I would do, that do I not, and that which I would do I find myself doing.

[IF PAUL could say those things about himself, where does it leave any of us, let alone the average nominal Christian...?  Apart from Christ and God's Holy Spirit, there is NOTHING good in ANY of us.  Unless a Christian walks in the Spirit 100% of the time (which I believe in this life is nearly impossible for anyone except a monk who lives alone on top of the mountain and studies the Scriptures all day long—hey that kinda sounds like me; but I am no better than anyone else and just as sinful, though each day I endeavor through Christ to live a life of holiness, pleasing and acceptable in His Sight); and even then, monks are human too; and the true test of holiness is not how spiritual one can be when he is all alone, but when he interacts with other people (especially those less spiritual and more sinful than himself); like that motivational poster with a ship in heavy, large waves that says, "A ship is safe in the harbor—but that's not what ships are made for!"  While God may call us to times of mountain top or wilderness soltitude, especially His prophets, that does not automatically make them holy (and never sinless).  God's Word clearly shows that His prophets were sinful, faulty humans just like everyone else; except He chose them and put an extra portion of His Spirit upon them to speak to His people.]

The greatest delusion in the Christian world is epitomized in the "feel good" tv series which, in its long-running career, infected the minds of God's people with "Touched by an Angel" theology; causing people to think, "you don't need to do anything; God loves you just the way you are."  This subtle lie of the evil one preaches a bloodless Gospel: "There is no need to repent, God loves you in your sin and doesn't care about that sort of thing"—this is antichrist theology and contrary to all Scripture... Modern Christians, lay and clergy alike have for decades parroted the false theology, "God loves the sinner and only hates the sin"; Christ never said this, GANDHI (the revolutionist who decided to try a new approach, with feigned pacifism and cunning words) said it in his 1929 autobiography; Scripture clearly says that God hates the SOUL that sinneth, not merely the sin—and His Holiness demands that He Judge the SINNER (you cannot judge sin itself, which is nonexistent without a human to commit it; that is the same illogic that says "guns kill people").  Those who have not had Christ's death applied to their sin debt, must pay the unpayable debt themselves.  Carnal, deluded Christians who go to church to have their aura's fluffed by a Reader's Digest, feel-good sermon with touched by an angel theology, have itching ears who only want to hear smooth sayings, sweet lies, like, "God loves you just the way you are, you have nothing to repent of, the law was done away with and Christ already bore your judgment so it doesn't matter how you live and God abolished the standard of morality anyway; in fact, God Himself is fortunate to have you on his side, go, eat, drink, and be merry, all those sinners out in the world are the problem, not you; God wishes they were all like you, but sadly they are not, say a prayer for them if you think about it, but don't let worrying about them drag you down, leave them up to God and just rejoice that God is proud of you, your sitting here in church and putting money in the collection plate is proof of this; you've done your duty, Amen, okay, let's all rush home to watch the superbowl and we can think about God again a week from now...")...
We, God's people, are ourselves sinful and our greatest sin is thinking that we are not—if we were not, the City set on a hill that our Christian republics used to be, would not now be cesspools of immorality and the resurrection of end time Babylon and as in the days of Noah, in which everyone is eating, drinking, making merry, marrying and giving in marriage (that is, in violation of all laws God established for marriage).  For Christians to believe that we are not vile sinners ourselves is the basic goodness of man heresy injected into the Protestant faith by well-meaning but spiritually blind Arminianists (initially, James Arminius, then Wesley and Finney; and now 99% of the Protestant world); and is a denial of the Reformed Faith, specifically, Total Depravity of man.  Man is not merely sick, he is spiritually dead and only Christ can bring us back to life).
Our second greatest sin is allowing flagrant immorality and violations of God's moral code to go unpunished in our midst, turning a blind eye to it, "tolerating it" (Christians have been force-fed like rats in a laboratory or cattle for the slaughter, a perverted notion of Christ's love and that we should be tolerant; NOWHERE in God's Word are we told to be tolerant, that of course, as you know, is antichrist false theology).  However, the sin in society is not the problem—WE are the problem for allowing it; we then are just as guilty and are accomplices.  The enemies of God, the wicked, the antichrists, they are not the problem.  THEY ARE FULFILLING the role God gave them: vessels of wrath fitted, created FOR DESTRUCTION.  They cannot be expected to act any other way than the way that they do... they have been placed in our midst, as a test to US, God's people, to see if we will obey God and NOT be tolerant, to see if we will obey God and HATE evil, and put it out from among us.  The purpose of the vessels of wrath is two fold:

1. to fill ye up the measure of God's wrath; and
2. to serve as either a tool of blessing for God's people (if we treat them as God commanded us to) or judgment for God's people (if we turn from God's Laws and embrace them). 

WE are the problem.  OUR SIN is the problem, because WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIVE IN WICKEDNESS, we have been called to be HOLY.  They are only doing what is in their nature.  While God will judge them for it eventually, if we do not as a righteous society judge them as God commanded--THEN WE ALL SHARE IN THEIR JUDGEMENT even as the entire tribe of Benjamin was nearly exterminated because they harbored a half-dozen sodomite-rapist-murderers and did not give them up for judgment when it was demanded, but protected them.  When we refuse to do the unpleasant task of judgment in society, then we all share in the judgment for the crimes that have not been properly physically (not spiritually) atoned for as God commands.  We reap what we sow.
Ecclesiastes 8:11: "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil." 
WE, GOD'S PEOPLE are the problem.  WE have neglected obedience to God for so long in keeping His garden weeded, that the weeds have overgrown the garden to such an extent it can only be renewed by burning the entire garden... GOOD SEED AND ALL.  There is no need for kindling.  The good seed does not root out the weeds or gather herbicide.  The Husbandman does.  However, the good seed, like the wayward Prodigal, must be reduced to such a low state, that they see the vileness of their own sin, turn from it in shame and cry unto God for forgiveness.  This cannot happen if God's people are too stiff-necked to realize they are part of the problem or too drunk on the wine of Babylon enjoying the party to Hell on the Titanic heading for Niagara Falls, that the thought of sin and repentance never enters their mind.
The entire earth will be consumed with fire, the wicked will be removed and the righteous will be refined according to their works: wood, hay, or stubble, or gold, silver, and precious stones.  These works of God's people, as you know, are not for salvation, but for placement and honor (or lack thereof) in God's coming Kingdom on earth.  The entire earth will be reborn with fire, once purged and purified and refined. 
However, God's people will not rise up again; such thinking is as out of place as a cross-eyed armless warrior on the field of battle.  God's people are stiff-necked and in rebellion now as they were before they were conquered and deported by Assyria and Babylon; now as then, they have been given repeated warnings to repent, God's blessings have dried up, the enemy has been assaulting and oppressing, yet like a rebellious child who in willful arrogant unrepentance hardens his resolve and refuses to even cry out in pain, let alone for mercy, from the Father's spanking, we continue to suffer.  Whenever the Israelites tried to rise up themselves against invading enemies that God had brought against them to chastise them, it only ended in defeat.  The ONLY thing that offered periodic stays of execution was when God's people truly humbled themselves, fasted, repented, and cried out to God for mercy.  TOO MANY Christians have NEVER been on their knees before God, let alone flat on their faces crying out for mercy.  No, that might put a crease in the knees of their designer pants or get lint on their shirt or mess up their hair or makeup.  White washed sepulchers full of dead men's bones worried about appearances; too proud to humble themselves before the God of the Universe, whom they claim to be their God, Savior, Father, and Lord.
God's people WILL NOT rise up.  According to God's PROMISE, if we sinned and rebelled without repentance, God would use our enemies to chasten us—and we cannot rise up against God's Hand of Judgment and remove His chastening Hand; the ONLY thing we can do is repent and MOVE HIS HEART to the point that HE DELIVERS US. 
THE BRIDE DOES NOT fight at the side of the groom.  That is modernist feminist antichrist theology.  Christ's bride, the TRUE church, has been raped and abused  for 6,000 years (even as those sodomite perverts in the Benjamite town violated the Levite's concubine that one evening).  However, PART of the reason Christ's betrothed has been violated is because she lived loosely and played the whore (even as the book of Hosea expresses).  THE BRIDE needs to repent.  Once she does, the GROOM will return and take vengeance on those who violated her.  NOWHERE in Scripture is the "liberated woman" depicted.  The bride of Christ is not some Viking Valkerie who bloodies herself battling as an equal at the side of the groom—it was HER SIN that led to her own violation (and her husband's violation, for they are one flesh and what violates the bride violates her husband)  and it was her sin that caused His death.  Christ will not return for a rebellious bride who is unwilling to submit herself to Him and who continues to think that she is in charge and can fix the problems she herself caused. 
Scripture says, "IF MY PEOPLE"  shall what...? REPENT, HUMBLE THEMSELVES, SEEK GOD'S FACE, then and only then.... what...? GOD HIMSELF will hear, deliver, and heal... the notion that God's people will eventually "rise up" is not only irrational fantasy... IT IS THE VERY THING—THE VERY DELUSION THAT KEEPS THEM FROM REPENTING...! 
God's people CANNOT rise up; they need to FALL DOWN on their faces and REPENT... Thinking we can rise up is the OPPOSITE of what we should be doing; we can no more "rise up" than someone on his death-bed, his body consumed with cancer, can rise up... it is delusional.  Yes, 100 years ago, maybe we had the opportunity to rise up.  That option is GONE.  IT IS OFF THE TABLE.  God gives His people ample opportunity to OBEY; but after that line has been crossed, and the threshold of the point of no return is passed, there is no longer the opportunity to obey, for obedience is no longer an option and JUDGMENT is put in its place.  YES, if we CRY OUT TO GOD under that JUDGMENT, He will REMOVE the Judgment and THEN JUDGE OUR ENEMIES INSTEAD.  However, Judgment begins at the HOUSE OF GOD.  UNTIL WE REPENT, God will not judge our enemies.  OUR NOT repenting is what allows our enemies to flourish, and the delusion that we will rise up keeps our people from repenting. 
If a father tells his son, "clean up this filthy room by sunrise tomorrow you I will give you a sound spanking" the child CANNOT choose to start obeying after the sun has already risen; the critical time period for repentance has passed and the time for judgment has begun. 
Christ clearly said that in the end times the tribulation will be so severe that if God did not draw those days short (UPON THE REPENTANCE and CRYING OUT of His people under Judgment) that not even the elect would survive.  Christ declared, "When the Son of man returns, will He find faith yet upon the earth...?" (will there be any who possess faith, who are faithful, will there be any of the elect who are left alive...?).  The elect in the end times, as in the days of Noah, is a VERY SMALL NUMBER.  WE CANNOT rise up.  We are too sinful and deluded in thinking we can.  If our hearts were right, of course our small numbers would not matter; for if God be for us who can be against us?  HOWEVER, GOD IS NOT FOR US if we are not for Him—and we are not for Him or society would not be the filthy, foul, perverse, corrupt, unjust sewer that it is. 
We are in a different point in history today.  We are not about to enter the promised land with God's blessing, with Him going before us to fight for us.  That time has passed.  We grew fat off the blessings, tolerated sin in our midst, absorbed the mingled peoples and mixed multitude and His eternal enemies, adopted their ways and have ourselves become Babylon.  We cannot rise up.  We can only be delivered and we cannot be delivered if we do not truly repent and we cannot repent if we continue under the delusion that we will rise up.  The 5 foolish virgins were unprepared and shut out of the kingdom.  There is no statute of limitations on God's Judgment.  Christians cannot wait 7 years and think they no longer will have Judgment due for their sin.  If they neglect doing what is right, paying their bills, their mortgage, etc., trusting some clever scheme that lulled them into a false sense of security—when the due date arrives they will be evicted.  Christians cannot file for moral and spiritual bankruptcy and be freed from the decades of obligation they have accrued.
I am not talking about salvation, but the penalty and judgment for sin here on earth; reaping what we sow.  However, those who continue in sin and refuse to obey God, do what is right, humble themselves before God so that God may exalt us, they may find out that they too are cast into outer darkness; having merely been deluded thinking that they were converted—but true conversion bears fruit.  Christ said My sheep hear My Voice and follow (obey) Me and every tree is known by its fruit.  And if a fig tree that is supposed to bear fruit, does not do so when it is supposed to (but instead glories in itself, being full and rich and green with leaves, self-absorbed life, not life-giving life), well, Christ may curse that tree as He will also prune the dead branches off His vineyard (just as the chaff is separated from the wheat).
You referred to Luke 12:49 which tells us that Christ declared, "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?.
..or in more modern English, "I am come to eventually cast fire upon the earth, and what is My desire? —that the fire was already burning!" 
I agree with Christ!  Too many Christians are like rebellious children hiding on the edge of the woods in the dark, not wanting to come into the house knowing the father is waiting to spank them.  What is the only mature, the only sane, the only Godly response...? —get the spanking over with so we can finally enjoy life again.  Too many Christians are clutching on to false life (which is really death disguised) when if they would just let go of it they could then receive the far superior true life God has waiting to give us; but we cannot hold both in our hands, we have to relinquish the one to receive the other; even as Christ said unless a kernel of wheat fall to the ground and die it cannot bring forth much fruit.  Thinking we can rise up is clutching on to this false life, under the delusion it is life and that we are in control of it.  They only thing we have been in control of is destroying it, whether by participating in evil or not participating in the rebuking and judgment  of it.
In context, the fire Christ that will send is first directed against HIS PEOPLE—not against God's enemies.  Read the passage in Luke in context and you will see the verses before and after it are in reference to GOD'S PEOPLE who are still clutching their sinful ways rather than repenting and following Him.  This passage is NOT in reference to the tares.  The tares are spoken of in entirely different context in Matthew 13:24-43.  The fire to which the tares will be subjected and the time frame are entirely different that the fire Christ said that He would send to burn up the chaff of HIS OWN PEOPLE here in Luke 12.


Yes, we know the tares will also be uprooted, gathered into bundles and burned with fire—but Judgment begins with the House of God, and if the righteous barely escape, what will be the fate of those who obey not the Gospel of the Lord Christ Jesus.
He must increase, we must decrease.

The wisdom of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing (in their own carnal wisdom)


His strength is made perfect in our weakness.


Humble yourselves under the Mighty Hand of God that is due season (upon repentance) He shall exalt you.


Everything that exalts itself shall be abased and that which is abased shall be exalted.


Even as the Israelites in Christ's day misunderstood God's Plan (thinking that Christ would destroy the Roman Empire and deliver the Kingdom then and there), so also God's people misunderstand His plan here in the end times.  We will not rise up.  Those who think we will are in for a greater disappointment than the spiritually deluded people of Christ's day.  Those who try to rise up will perish.  Hopefully, those who are truly obedient and repentant will be preserved in "our own little land of Goshens" while the plagues fall all around us—because there is no Rapture, which, as you know, is spiritual delusion and false doctrine in a different area, which was created for the exact opposite result (see my book, The Futurist and Rapture Conspiracy, 164pp., 13.50 + P&H).  The Rapture, as you know is Zionist/Jesuit counter-reformation propaganda that was devised to undermine the foundation of the Protestant Reformation; it teaches the opposite of "rising up" (though, ironically, with the myth of a different kind of rising up to the clouds); the Rapture teaches irresponsible complacency, with the delusion, "don't worry, before things get too bad, God will rapture us out" but this, as you know is entirely contradictory to everything that Scripture teaches.  God's people will not be raptured out and we will not rise up; once we truly and completely humble ourselves—on our faces, in tears—and fully repent before God and purpose our hearts to finally learn what He requires so we can finally begin obeying Him (for if we are in sin God does not hear our prayers and sin entails sin of commission [doing what we are not supposed to do] and sins of omission [not doing what we are supposed to do] and we cannot truly repent and obey unless we stop doing what we are not supposed to and start doing what we are supposed to and we cannot do that if we don't even know what God requires since the harlot church has convinced God's people that God abolished His Law and erased all moral boundaries.  ONLY once we finally truly repent and turn from sin and do what is right, will Christ appear to deliver us and destroy the wicked and then set up the Millennial Kingdom.


God help us!  Deliver us from our delusions.  Turn our hearts from carnality.  Pour out Your Holy Spirit upon us in His Fullness without measure to overflowing so we can truly repent so You can deliver us... and soon please!