—"IF this verse is true..." and the nature of true spirituality and corrupt politics

Someone emailed and asked:

Robert,
IF this scripture is true....how can it possibly matter who one votes for? We are rewarded according to our spiritual condition....
>
> Dan 4:17
>
> 17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

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 I replied:

It matters because God commands us to do what is RIGHT... regardless of what the outcome may be; He has ordained all.  Our job is to be faithful and do what is right all the time.

Also, you surely realize that this is not a GENERAL statement that is to be applied blindly to all situations.  Don't you...? (But if you did, I don't think you would have asked this question.)  Was king David the basest of men? Hezekiah? Josiah?

The specific application of this verse is that in times that God uses other nations to judge His people Israel, at times that God uses Israel's own rulers (wicked ones) to judge His people; at times that God uses wicked rulers of other nations to judge their own people (that is, oppress and therefore bring God's Judgment)  IT IS THEN that God setteth up the basest of men to bring about that judgment.

Any truth taken out of context is rendered a mistruth.

No verse is an island unto it self... otherwise, if Daniel 4:17 is the only truth, then the first part of "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn" (Proverbs 29:2) meaningless and false; and a plethora of other verses concerning godly rulers are neutered into meaninglessness.  If God ONLY sets up the basest men as rulers, then there can be no righteous rulers.

It is NOT "if" this scripture is true.  ALL SCRIPTURE IS TRUE.  The issue is whether you properly understand its context, if you think it through properly according to the Biblical rules of interpretation.

If you start out on shaky ground with a faulty premise, how can the conclusion be any better except by accident?

The logical conclusion of your conclusion is that we should simply remain in the mire because we are sinful.  However, the true solution is to individually repent and pray that God brings GENERAL repentance that that we do not remain in our spiritually and morally bankrupt state and therefore deserve judgment.

If it does not matter who we vote for because we are rewarded for our spiritual condition, do you also then believe that it does not matter who we obey?  If we are rewarded for our spiritual condition then why should we obey God? —because the only way out of that spiritual judgment is obedience to God.  Someone will be elected or installed.  If there is a choice that can be voted for, it is senseless not to vote if you are a registered voter and actually believe the votes are counted and that that is what declares the winner.  Hillary cannot be voted for unless a person rejects what God commanded. 

While there is A LOT about Trump I don't like, as I have inferred in previous emails, there no doubt was a lot about Nebuchadnezzar that was morally wrong.  However, Neb. was a pure Chaldean and God humbled and converted him.  Herod was an Edomite and a vessel of wrath.  Jezebel was a Canaanite Zidonian; forever cursed by God.  So, if the choice was between Jezebel and Nebuchadnezzar, who would you vote for?  Of course the choice is to choose the lesser of two evils if there is no righteous choice... especially if the worser of two evils will win if not enough people vote for the lesser of two evils... and pray that God works in that lesser of two evils to humble him to do what is right--which will only happen once enough people actually humble themselves before the God of the Universe and repent of their sins against Him and actually start to obey Him instead of living as if they are their own god, with the delusion that God is merely a giant fluffy spiritual marshmallow and will never judge anyone. 

Christians have lost the Fear of God because they don't understand His Holiness and that He is Just and Immutable and as Thomas Jefferson said, "I tremble for my nation when I reflect that God is Just and that His Justice cannot sleep forever" (not the words of a Deist).  Scripture says, "for our God is a consuming fire" and that He will "consume the adversaries"--the adversaries include all "Christians" who do not live as God commanded, and who are instead friends of the world and concerned with pleasing man.  "Friendship with the world is enmity with God; he who would be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."  Christians who don't live as Christ lived, and who do not stand up for what Christ stood up for, and who do not rebuke what Christ rebuked, and who do not condemn what Christ condemned, and who do not hate what Christ hated, and who do not draw lines of separation as Christ drew, deny Christ and are not Christians; even as the majority of Republicans and Democrats are neither Republicans or Democrats because 99% of them whether they realize it or not embrace the 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto.  Therefore, if they embrace Marxist, Bolshevik, Socialist communism, what are they?  So it is with the majority of "Christians".  They do not hold to the teaching of the Word of God and they follow a false christ and worship a false god invented either in their own minds, or fabricated by board vote of their corrupt denomination.  RAB

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response to your email below....
 
Robert

Here is the problem.

The beast has seven heads and the whore rides the beast. The whore is clearly identified in Ez. 16 and Ez. 23 as Israel. That didn’t change just because the printers put a black [blank...?] white page between the two segments of what we now have as our Bible.

The seven beast are clearly delineated as kingdoms that rule until the Kingdom of Heaven.

They are represented by the IMAGE Nebuchadnezzar made of the man he saw in his dream.

While there are only five kingdoms within the image itself; there were two that had already gone before. a.) Egypt and b.) Assyria. Babylon was the head of the image but the third in the linear line of kings that rules over Israel in their wilderness wanderings (3and1/2 days) that began at the Exodus.

Now here is the problem. GOVERNMENT of man (whose number is six) is antithetical to the plan of God and tolerated only during the duration of man’s ‘dominion’. It is his will it be so. When you speak of the kings like Hezikiah, you are addressing the micro-cosm. When you talk about the MACRO-cosm, then you are talking about the kingdoms represented by the anti-christ (Nebuchadnezzar’s image...ie...govt; religion and money).

The two headed beast is nothing more that the two party system and it is evil. Are you telling me that we are given a choice between evil and evil and are good if we choose the right evil? I don’t agree at all.

There is no king but Yahshua and the sooner we realize that and abandon our ritualistic worship at the feet of the image of the ‘man’ (system). the sooner he will return and be our true king.

I hope you will send this to all you sent your reply to.

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You cannot see the forest for the trees.  Your reply is a smokescreen and a non sequitur with which you deceive yourself.  All that you say is utterly irrelevant in terms of our obedience to God.  You reap what you sow.  Once you realize you have sown thistles and brambles, you don't just sit there saying, oh well, I guess that's all I will ever have.  You repent and pull up the noxious weeds and begin to plant good seed.

Our obedience to God has nothing to do with how many toes are on the Great Image of Neb. or how many horns are on which beast or what they represent.  All those things explain how things will play out, but they no bearing on our obedience to God which should not be affected by any other thing.

Your belief that there is no king but Yashua contradicts the whole of Scripture: for He is the KING of kings.  He Himself sets up all other kings, both pagan and those of His own people; some evil, some righteous for His own Purpose.  God established the Throne of David.  He also established priests and judges.  While they are all SUPPOSED to rule by GOD'S Law, whether they do or not does not change the fact that He established them to use for His Purpose.  Your claim there is no King but Jesus is anti-intellectual and your claim that ... well... WHATEVER your claim is... basically amounts to "embrace the tsunami" there is nothing you can do about.  Whereas, throughout the Old Testament, even in the face of imminent destruction, when His people repented, God destroyed the enemy and gave His people a reprieve.  Ye have not because ye ask not... oh ye of little faith.  RAB

 

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Robert,
So then you admit....to do good we must pick our evil....Thanks for the reply.

If God chooses the king then He chose Obama...and as sure as the sun will rise...he will pick the next one too.

It matters not WHO you vote for.

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I certainly do not admit to something that you say when it is not something that I said and I have no idea what you are talking about when you say, "to do good we must pick our evil".  Don't assume I agree with your confusion.

God uses HIS PEOPLE to bring about His Will.

that's like saying it does not matter if you obey God.  God has determined all, but to think that you are not responsible is delusion and demonstrates not understanding the roles that He has assigned to us.  God intended to cause a drought and God intended to end the drought... BUT THE MEANS BY WHICH HE DETERMINED TO ACHIEVE IT IN BOTH CASES WAS BY TELLING ELIJAH TO SO PRAY.

God has determined all.  It matters not who you vote for in a very limited sense, BUT THAT DOES NOT mean that you are free to be irresponsible.  In the same limited sense it does not matter whether you pray or even obey... BUT GOD HAS COMMANDED US TO PRAY AND HE HAS COMMANDED US TO OBEY.

God determined to have Obama illegitimately foisted upon us because we deserve judgment; it seems that you don't care whether we have judgment or a reprieve of judgment... or whether we are responsible before God to do what is right.  God appointed the Kings of Israel, but the people still crowned them.  God holds us responsible to do what is right... to oppose evil... to make the right choices.... not do nothing.  When King David, in a moment of mental weakness, refused to obey God and choose one of three Judgments for his sin in numbering the people, David said I cannot choose let the Lord choose.  As a result 70,000 Israelites died.  That may not be a burden on your conscience, but it would be on mine and it was on David's.  Now, surely those people who died God had a reason for their deaths.  HOWEVER, had David done the RIGHT THING and chosen the only proper choice, for HE HIMSELF to be pursued for 3 months by his enemies, then those 70,000 deaths would not have been on his conscience, and if it was God's Will that those 70,000 die, He would have ordained for them to die in some other fashion that would not have been a burden on David's heart.  RAB

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newest update

 

Hi, thanks for you comments... mine below in Green.

 

First, of all, by way of preface, the comments of mine to which you are responding are fragmentary, in the fact that they must be considered in context with every email I have sent out on this topic over the past 2 years.

 

In all of those I have from the outset specifically declared, "IF you believe that we actually elect our politicians by our vote... IF you believe in the electoral process, IF you are a registered voter and have always voted in elections... then... (all that I said below to which you respond...)

 

that if you believe that we elect our politicians and if you are registered voter, then there are only 2 options in this race, Hillary or Trump, no 3rd party candidate has a chance, Christ Jesus is not on the ballot and does not want to be voted for because He will not be elected by popular opinion but will come and claim what is rightfully His [everything] when the Father declares that the time is right... and therefore, any vote for anyone other than Trump is a vote for Hillary...

 

and if you [and note: when I say "you" I am NOT talking to the person who wrote this email, I am speaking in generalities, instead of continually writing "and if a person is" rather than simply writing "you"] are a registered voter then it is pretty stupid not to vote just because you think it is rigged.  If a criminal is coming at you with a knife and you have a gun, but the gun has been known to jam most of the time that you have ever tried to use it, would you not at least try to shoot it?  Or would you merely let the criminal attack you without even trying to shoot the gun, impotently thinking, "this thing doesn't work, no sense even trying"...?

 

Does no one realize that God can cause the wrath of men to praise Him?  Balaam opened his mouth to curse God's people and God caused blessings to come out of his mouth instead!  Therefore, God certainly can cause the election to proceed by the actual vote of the people, if that is His Will and IF HIS PEOPLE ACTUALLY REPENT OF THEIR SINS instead of thinking that "everyone else is to blame, but God is perfectly happy with me because I am a saint and God is just so gosh darn lucky to have me on His Side and I do nothing to offend God because I have never murdered anyone and I am not a homo-pervert, so what possibly could I do that would be sinful since He 'abolished His Law', but I guess even though He 'abolished His Law' He just did not abolish those 2 major ones [until enough denominations vote to declare 'good' that which God declared 'evil', as they have so done all the other abominations that God outlawed, which abominations they now embrace and tell their parishoners to embrace or they are sinning against God--which of course is duplicitous if they claim that God abolished His Law: for how could NOT VIOLATING what USED to be A LAW that God COMMANDED AGAINST, somehow be construed as "sin", whether they claim that God abolished His Law or not? it is anti-intellectual). 

 

Another person recently emailed talking about Soros donating $500 million or so to Trump's campaign, as if that was answer to who will be the next president.  However, that is a smokescreen on so many levels and it is really silly.  Since a corrupt person can donate money to any candidate, does his donation invalidate the candidate? if so, it is simple to ruin a political career—just give a political candidate money.  I believe it was Jerry Falwell (not that I claim him to have been a spiritual or character role model) who said if the Devil gave him a check he would cash it.  I think maybe Billy Sunday said the same thing.  Regardless, Soros' donation, real or not, is the minor off-point point.  The main off-point point of the smokescreen is that I have never claimed that Trump is a choir boy.  I have always from the outset said of him the same thing I have said of Putin: I would LIKE to trust him but I know that I cannot.  I have pointed out many discrepancies and causes of concern and duplicity.  But, in terms of the ONLY matter of concern, all that is smoke.  THERE IS ONLY ONE question, only one point of relevancy in light of this "election" that is going forward regardless of rule of Law: Trump or Hillary.  That is the only question.  Whether Soros donated to Trump is irrelevant in terms of the only question that matters at this point: Trump or Hillary?  Do you want Hillary? 

 

Of course there are thousands of questions or matters that are of importance, and the most important would not be whether some private individual (despite his despicableness) donated money to Trump.  The only important point is that the U.S. Constitution does not allow a woman to be president of the United States.  But they ignore that entirely... why should they recognize the Constitution? their entire goal is to undermine it, and for the past 8 years Congress has not even demanded to know the truth about Obama's sealed records, phony SS#, foreign student status in college, lies about whether he is muslim or christian, grill him on all his other lies and also on the rhetoric in his books about hating America, demand DNA test to ascertain his true biological father, DNA test to verify whether Obama's children are even his and Mitch's (if she is even a woman, I imagine that she probably is, but there is doubt).  I believe all people in such positions of power should submit to polygraph and truth serum... they lose all right to privacy and the 5th Amendment once they accept a public trust... the consequences are too great for them to be merely held to the "honor system"--especially when everyone knows them to be dishonest and without honor.  If truck drivers can be subjected to surprise, spot drug or breathalizer tests, so should politicians (especially George W. Bush when he was overcome with the giddiness to pretend like he was marching with a big stupid boyish smile at a memorial service for 5 slain police officers...! is he back to snorting cocaine or did he never stop?)

 

Beyond the fact that without changing the Constitution a woman cannot be president, and beyond all the crimes and treason and lies that Hillary is guilty of, the only issue is who will be elected or "installed"...?  There is always a chance an election can be impossible to be rigged IF ENOUGH PEOPLE have oversight and demand honesty. 

 

Furthermore, again, if God's people repent, truly repent before Him of violating His Holiness while thinking that they fart cotton candy, God can humble Trump as He humbled Nebuchadnezzar, even if Trump is not truly a Christian, even if he does not have sincere patriot intentions but is merely playing the role assigned to him... ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IF GOD'S PEOPLE ACTUALLY REPENT.  God had the Assyrian army laying siege to Jerusalem and being conquered was a slam dunk... but because God's people repented, God cause the Assyrian army to pack up and leave by causing trouble and conspiracy within the Assyrian nation itself and God gave His people a reprieve.  God can do 1001 things that puny human minds cannot even imagine (IRREGARDLESS OF which bowl or vial or trump prophecy hawkers think we are in, because while all those bowls and trumps and vials are certainly true, no one has understood them completely for the past 2,000 years and ANYTHING can happen in between them if that is God's Will.  God did NOT give us an advance play by play and give us a detailed choreography of every single event that would happen; He gave us highlights like a series of mountain peaks lined up, and we cannot see what is in the valleys).

 

HOWEVER, as I have also expressed in numerous emails for many years, I DO NOT believe in the electoral process and don't believe there has been an honest election for 150 years or so... furthermore, I do not believe in the modern concept of the electoral process because it is utterly based on FRAUD... a multiplicity of frauds.

 

First of all, politics are supposed to be PUBLIC SERVANTS.  They are supposed to be elected TO SERVE US primarily by PRESERVING OUR RIGHTS and DEFENDING the constitution.  HOWEVER, 99% of what they do is the direct OPPOSITE and therefore, they commit FRAUD and TREASON based upon the understood reason [which is an implied contract] for which they are elected.  THEY ARE NOT elected to be dictators to scrap our constitution and by executive order or treasonous congressional vote, strip us of our rights and give the wealth of our nation and our nation itself to aliens, while keeping the lion's share for themselves.

 

The PEOPLE are to blame for not PROSECUTING CORRUPT POLITICIANS--EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM violates a campaign promise or violates the Constitution.  Any politician who has flown to the State of Israeli to hear what the Israelis have to say about American politics IS A TRAITOR.  Any politician who violates ONE SINGLE CAMPAIGN PROMISE has committed FRAUD and he INVALIDATES his own office the very first time that he commits fraud and violates the promise by which he was elected and he therefore is also guilty of Grand Larceny and Racketeering (on top of High Treason and Fraud) for having accepted BILLIONS of dollars of campaign donations (matched by taxpayer money) to be elected based upon premises he violated.  NO ACTION CAN ARISE OUT OF FRAUD. 

 

EVERY time any politician violates the Law he should be prosecuted.  What is illegal in the private sector is illegal in politics.  In fact, those who are public servants are to be held to a HIGHER standard, not a lower one (or non-existent one, as if they are untouchable).  The first time any politician violates a campaign promise (whether a valid promise or not) or does anything to strip the people of their rights, give rights to alien peoples, import aliens, engage in illegal wars, carry out secret operations, engage in any deceit or conspiracy, he should be removed from office, tried for his crimes, and executed if found guilty.  That which is at stake--FREEDOM and LIFE--is too great to risk it by IGNORING POLITICAL TREASON AND CRIME.  FOOLS think, "oh well, they lied to us again, we will show them in 4 years...!" RIGHT, the same fools have been saying the same foolish thing for the past 75 years!  NO.  The solution is to try them for their crimes and execute them if guilty.  If you don't want to risk being executed, stay out of politics or be 100% honest.  Politicians are elected to do the will of the LEGITIMATE people; not their own will, and not the will of illegitimate illegals who have been imported en masse to destabilize the nation (which is a communist method).  Understand.  No action can arise out of fraud.  I don't care HOW MANY generations of illegals are born on US soil, they are not Americans, they have no rights.  A fraudulent act is VOID AB INITIO--from its very origins.  The only issue is, stupid people acknowledge fraud as validity, but that does not make it valid; that merely means that some idiot or conspirator has fled reality for delusion, and continues to drag a myriad of others into that delusion with him.

 

Jefferson penned into the Declaration of Independence that we have been endowed by our "Creator with certain inalienable rights; and among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness [property]; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their powers from the consent of the governed."   Furthermore, “Individual Liberties are antecedent to  all government.” (Common Law Maxim)  That is, the individual rights of the LAWFUL, LEGITIMATE populace... not imported aliens to steal the vote away from the lawful inhabitants.

 

"...governments ... deriving their powers from the consent of the governed."  I DON'T GIVE MY CONSENT.  Were it an HONEST election and were ALL those running for office CHRISTIANS

 

(which was originally required by Law; the Federal Constitution was Christian, even if not overtly penned, since doctrinal wording could not have been agreed upon--because all the constitutions of the individual states were overtly Christian, and so by its very nature, a confederation of those states HAD to be Christian... NO STATE would have ratified a Constitution that expected it to ABANDON ALL THAT IT BELIEVED TO BE HOLY AND TRUE... there would have been a Revolution within the Revolution!  If a confederation of German princes were formed, would anyone doubt that it was German? that they would still speak German?  So it is with the Federal Constitution.  It was not a law unto itself, but a limited unifying of individual states and it did not and could not change their nature.  However, those who hate the truth easily confuse those who do not understand it, and have used the constitution against the states, by falsely interpreting it to be something that it was never intended to be.  US senators and congressmen were not supposed to be full-time jobs, even as the Federal government was not intended to be an autonomous beast.  Like the German Heptarchies or the Silurian Pendragon, one chieftain out of many assumed the lead role in times of war when the various tribes banded together against a common foe... but when the threat was over, the Overlord reverted back to his normal role... --and that is one reason why the corrupt federal politicians keep the nation in a constant state of war and import terrorism.)

 

...were all those running for office HONEST and not TRAITORS... and if they realized that they were BOUND BY THE CHAINS OF THE CONSTITUTION and that the are our SERVANTS who are bound to serve us and PRESERVE OUR RIGHTS and DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION AND CHRISTIANITY IN THE FEAR OF GOD according to the MORALITY that was the LAW when our nation was founded... then I would gladly vote, but there is no point voting in a rigged, corrupt system and the ONLY thing that would accomplish would be for the conspirators to obtain by fraud my consent to be governed by conspirators and traitors. 

 

[while this may seem hypocritical to some, they do not understand my status... and though I don't vote, I oppose all such evil every single day.  I have never suggested anyone who is not a registered voter rush out and register.  ALL I have suggested is that those who are registered, who have voted in elections in the past, vote whatever is necessary to keep HELLERY from being unconstitutionally installed as defacto Presidente (though not de jure President) and the only way to do that is to vote for Trump.  This is the reasonable duty for a registered voter.  This does not mean that their vote is going to alter the course of the universe.  This means that God honors people DOING WHAT THEY CAN DO and trusting him for the outcome.  I have been in FULL-TIME (90 hours a week) ministry for 26 years... I don't expect ANYTHING I do to change anything.  I do what is my reasonable service before God and trust Him for the outcome.  I plant seeds, He controls the harvest.  My point is: WHAT ARE YOU DOING?  WHAT IS IN YOUR HAND?  THEN DO IT WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT FOR GOD'S GLORY.  The PROPHET JEREMIAH told the people of Jerusalem to submit to the King of Babylon and they would live.  DID THAT MEAN that the King of Babylon was a spiritual saint who walked with God?  Only FOOLS draw such false inferences.  It does not matter how sinful the King of Babylon may have been, because the heart of the King is in the hand of the Lord.  God will use sinful vessels.  Some are reformable.  Others, like Herod or Hillary are vessels of wrath/destruction that have but one purpose and one destiny.]

 

Anything obtained by fraud is invalid, but I prefer to have a pure heart and clean hands and not give them any reason to think that they have jurisdiction over me in any way.  While of course Pharaoh always thinks that the slaves are his... I am not Pharaoh's slave and refuse to be.  I have never received any benefit and have never entered their jurisdiction.  They enter mine when they violate the law and I am in God's Jurisdiction.

 

Furthermore, the fact the MILLIONS of ILLEGALS have been bussed into the US and put on a government taxpayer funded breeding program to outvote us, again shows the fraud and conspiracy.  This was my introductory preface, and my comments to the points of the below email will be inserted in green.
RAB

 

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a 3rd party wrote

 

Nobody asked me to chime in on this conversation; but as _____ can (and probably will) attest, that hardly ever stops me.

 

In addition to Daniel 4:17 (which I think describes Obama to a tee), there are several other verses that tell us God is in complete control of whomever holds office, among them:

 

 

[This is all well and good but again as with ______'s entire discourse, it is entierly off point.  The issue has NEVER been whether God is in complete control or not.  That is an established fact and certainly not one that I have ever denied or even questioned because I am one of the greatest champions of God's Sovereignty.  The issue is we are to be faithful in all things.  If you believe in the electoral process or even if you don't believe in it but are a registered voter... then you need to vote for the only person who can defeat Hillary in the event that the election proceeds honestly, which is a means that God can use if His people repent, then enough people will demand honesty and fraud will not be possible...

 

 

   

Proverbs 16:33            The decision is wholly of the Lord.   Even the events that seem accidental, are really ordered by Him (Amplified).  On a side note, this quote from Franklin D. Roosevelt:  "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."

Proverbs 21:1              The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Isaiah 40:21-23               ²¹ Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? ²² It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: ²³That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.

Jeremiah 21:10            For I have set my face against this city for evil, and not for good,saith the LORD: it shall be given into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall burn it with fire.

Daniel 2:21                  He changes the times and the seasons, He removes kings and sets up kings, He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding! (Amplified Classical)

Romans 9:17               For the scripturesaith unto Pharaoh, Even forthis same purpose have I raisedtheeup , that I might shewmypowerinthee,andthatmyname might be declaredthroughoutall the earth.

Romans 13:1               For there is no power but of God:   the powers that be are ordained of God.

I agree with __________ that the two-party system is evil.

 

 

[Again, this is off point and a smokescreen, the issue has NEVER been a question of whether the two-party system is evil.  It is all evil and it is all corrupt.  But that is not the point.  RAB]

 

It is doing very well exactly what it was intended to do, which is divide the country; and as we all know, a house divided against itself cannot stand - Matthew 12:25, Mark 3:25, Luke 11:17.  There is no provision in the original Constitution for voting for anything except, I believe, for state representatives to Congress, and it's my understanding that only property owners were allowed to vote.  Article 1 lays out the provisions for electing the president and vice-president, and Article 2 deals with the process for electing senators -- they were not elected by any so-called "popular vote" of the populace.

 

I disagree, however, with his statement that the government of man is antithetical to the plan of God.  Antithetical to His will, but not to His plan (God's plan is often contrary to His will -- examples provided upon request).

 

[Though the below book is highly flawed, what is offered is one of its better quotations.  However, I disagree with the above and don't see how one can differentiate between "will" and "plan".  What is a plan if it is not the mapping out of ones will?  What is a will if it is not carried out? --and a will is carried out by a plan.  The issue is, God's Plan is His Will, but His Plan takes different stages in accomplishing that Will.  Judgment is His Plan and His Will.  But so is deliverance.  He has determined which course each will take and when, and the ONLY issue is for His people to "get on board" with obeying God regardless of which stage of His Will is presently playing out. 
Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (violations of God's Law).  We can't change where the Spirit leads.  We can't change God's Will.  We are supposed to "get on board" and follow where the Spirit leads, walking with and in Him... and obey God in all things.  We are to pray.  Our prayers don't change God or His Will... our prayers are to be the demonstration of our being on board with God's Will.  When enough Christians repent of their sins, and pray for deliverance (for God will not hear the prayers of those not in repentance... which is why no deliverance has yet been forthcoming, if any are even praying... because there is no repentance... repentance entails turning from what man wants and likes and doing what God commanded... and that cannot be done if man thinks that God "changed" and "abolished His Law" or abolished those laws that "Christians" don't want to recognize, preferring instead to follow the traditions of their elders)... when enough Christians truly repent of their sins and pray to God for deliverance and "get on board" with God's Will, IT IS THEN that God has determined for His Plan to be deliverance. RAB]

 

 

            Excerpted from the book SonPlacing (sonplace.com/), by Garrison Russell:  The human governments of earth are established and ruled by God’s sovereign direction. Nothing happens in any government that has not been energized by the ruler of the universe: To the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men – Daniel 4:17. If your government is perverted, this also is God’s work: I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them – Isaiah 3:4. The activities of governments reveal the mind of the Lord, and those who take the time to look, will discern His secret doings: The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will – Proverbs 21:1, pp 84-85, http://www.sonplace.com/sonplacing/sp_chp4.htm.

            When your perverted government is intent on your destruction, it is God's doing: For I have set my face against this city for evil, and not for good,saith the LORD: it shall be given into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall burn it with fire. - Jeremiah 21:10, pp 104-105, http://www.sonplace.com/sonplacing/sp_chp4.htm.

                       The evil that is invading this country is the work of God. It is purposed to effect a repentance in some, and an indictment of the rest.   It will not be stopped by a Republican congress, neither will the feeble efforts of modern Christianity ever stem the tide of global lawlessness. – p 638, http://www.sonplace.com/sonplacing/sp_chp16a.htm.

            He (God) has raised up the godless as leaders; He sustains the oppressors: For the scripturesaith unto Pharaoh, Even forthis same purpose have I raisedtheeup , that I might shewmypowerinthee,andthatmyname might be declaredthroughoutall the earth. - Romans 9:17, 198. He invented national terror, calling chaos His minister:   And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him. - Jeremiah 27:6, pp 197-198, http://www.sonplace.com/sonplacing/sp_chp7.htm.

The rest of my comments are inserted into the text.

If it does not matter who we vote for because we are rewarded for our spiritual condition, do you also then believe that it does not matter who we obey?  

 

[Of course, below, you are not preaching to the choir but to the preacher.  By my question above I did NOT imply that we are to obey corrupt politicians of any party, the question was, "if we are under judgment do you think that we no longer need to obey God?  When God's people sin against Him, He will bring oppression that makes it HARDER to obey Him, to separate the chaff from the wheat... and thus make bricks without straw [being provided].  Also, the below verses are quoted out of context as if it is the only universal truth.  The implication is that (in light of other clear passages in God's Word) that we are in fact to obey VALID, LEGITIMATE rulers, but if they demand that we violate God's Law, we are to obey God instead.  The same even applies to the nuclear family unit.  God commands children obey your father, but the father is a man and if he commands to disobey God, God is to be obeyed, not sinful man.  RAB]

 

The Bible instructs us to obey God and not man - Acts 5:29.  Our elected officials are not our masters; they are our public SERVANTS.  They should be obeying and serving us.  Matthew 23:9-10 in the Ferrar Fenton version says it best:  Neither select leaders; For One is your Leader, the Messiah.

 

[I am sorry, I must object and disagree.  While Ferrar Fenton I believe had good intentions, the Fenton translation is in many ways a terrible translation, and it is so not merely because of it being translated from the corrupt LXX (for the O.T.), but also because of Fenton's own flawed understanding.  This is a TERRIBLE translation and twisting of this verse.  Fenton completely misses the intention of this passage and twists it into something that it is not.  A truth is rendered a mistruth or even a non-truth when taken out of context.  This passage is NOT talking about not having fathers, not having teachers, and not having masters.  No verse is an island unto itself, but is only to be considered in harmony with the whole of established Scripture.  Something that has a specific context is not to be generalized to the whole, which is what you are doing and which Fenton has done.  Christ is speaking to His disciples in the area of PRIDE, STRIVING for egotistical recognition (as the disciples themselves frequently jostled for position, and as Christ used the hubristic Pharisees as an example of what NOT to be). 

This passage has NOTHING to do with God's established order.  God ordained fathers for the children who are sired by them, and commanded the children to obey their fathers.  This is not a general prohibition against calling your paternal parent "father".  It has a specific context... referring to not calling or looking to any human as if he was your SPIRITUAL FATHER WHOM YOU MUST OBEY AS GOD HIMSELF (the notion of the pope is a clear example).  Understand again the clear implication of the SPECIFIC usage.  Paul referred to Timothy as his son in the faith, and he as Timothy's and other believers' father in the faith.  But they did not CALL Paul "father" as a holy title and bow down to him as if Paul were a god, and they did not take Paul's word over the Word of God as if Paul himself were God's vicar on earth.

Fathers are spoken of throughout Scripture as a God-ordained institution. Christ himself referred to those who were fathers.  It would be anti-intellectual to assume that while there are indeed fathers, no one is allowed to call their father, 'father'.  The command "call no man 'father', upon this earth" has specific, limited context to actual spiritual delusion and implicit obedience as if some spiritual leader is Emperor.

The same applies to the other points that Christ mentions in this passage.  God ordains rulers.  He establishes them.  BUT He commands us to obey those legitimate rulers who have valid authority over us. 

In the case of the U.S., our rulers are our servants to keep the lawless element from violating the rights of others and sinning against God.  In that sense, public servants are rulers to those who step out of lawfulness into lawlessness; even as public officials step out of their office and commit an individual act/crime when they violate the law and surpass the authority invested them. 

Christ did NOT say "don't elect leaders".  That is asinine.  Christ said "Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ."  Again this has VERY LIMITED and SPECIFIC context.  It is not general.  It does not refer to literal masters in legitimate master-slave relationships... it refers to Pharisaical intellectual and spiritual fraud in ecclesiastical, educational, or governing boards patting themselves on the back, granting each other spurious titles simply because they have kowtowed to political correctness and bowed down and worshipped the image of the beast.  A plethora of people with Ph.D's (honorary or "earned") and M.A.s conferred upon them do not have the brains or honor to operate a donkey cart!  The issue is not that degrees are themselves evil.  The issue is that FRAUDLENT degrees in a corrupt system should not be drooled over to cause a person to think that once he obtains the cherished degree that all of the sudden he is now something having passed through the magical portal, crossing the threshold from "common nobody" to "intellectual and ruling elite"... all based on lies and ever-changing "truth of the day".

Paul tells slaves to obey their masters and entreats masters to treat their slaves humanely.  These masters being spoken of are not elected rulers or even kings, but actual owners of slaves whom they purchased, or those who voluntarily sold themselves into slavery for a steady roof and meal in exchange for perpetual servitude (the modern welfare system is just that with the exception that it is only one sided; it is not perpetual servitude, but perpetual robbery by the welfare recipients who malinger as invalids and like a baby in a high chair mouth open wide screaming to be spoon fed, pretending that he cannot feed himself, who after the meal jumps down and runs around and plays showing that he is capable of doing what he wants to do, but that he is immoral and refuses to be responsible and therefore demands everyone else to support his worthless existence).  Christ is speaking of false ECCLESIASTIC leaders who desire to be fawned over by drooling mindless followers who call them "Rabbi" and "Master" and "Father" and hang on their every word as if it proceeded out of the mouth of God Himself, and they abide by those words even if the Word of God says something different.  THAT is what this passage is speaking about.  RAB]

 

 If we are rewarded for our spiritual condition then why should we obey God? —because the only way out of that spiritual judgment is obedience to God.  Someone will be elected or installed.  If there is a choice that can be voted for, it is senseless not to vote if you are a registered voter and actually believe the votes are counted and that that is what declares the winner.

 

   1) There is one God, there is one Constitution, there is one set of laws.  There is not a Republican or Democratic God or Constitution or set of laws.  If our public servants were paying attention to the aforementioned, what difference would it make who was in office? 

 

[This all is well and good but off point and has nothing to do with my statement.  Again, the question has never been whether the two-party system is constitutionally valid... it is not, it is corrupt.  The democratic party is the neo-socialist party that has for the past 100 years played the role of "bad cop"; the republic party is the neo-socialist party that for the past century has played the role of "good cop"; though the roles are becoming so muddied there is little difference between the two.  The majority of modern republicans or democrats who deny that they are communists are either liars or ignoramuses and don't know what communism is and don't know what free goverment is supposed to be and what it once was. RAB]

 

Paraphrasing something I heard on a Christian radio show recently, every four years the country goes into a frenzied tail spin to elect an administration to fix what the last one messed up.  But man's government cannot be fixed -- God is going to have to replace it.   Hillary cannot be voted for unless a person rejects what God commanded.  While there is A LOT about Trump I don't like, as I have inferred in previous emails, there no doubt was a lot about Nebuchadnezzar that was morally wrong.  However, Neb. was a pure Chaldean and God humbled and converted him.  Herod was an Edomite and a vessel of wrath.  Jezebel was a Canaanite Zidonian; forever cursed by God.  So, if the choice was between Jezebel and Nebuchadnezzar, who would you vote for?   2) Joseph Stalin has been credited to have said, "It's not the people who vote that count. It's the people who count the votes." 

 

[Yes, that is all well and good and true, but again a moot point in light of reality that Franklin (showing that he was not a Deist at this time in life) declared, "God rules in the affairs of men".  Trump is God's pit bull, and he barks when God says bark.  Stalin was God's hyena and Mandela God's baboon, and Hillary God's vulture and they all do what God has ordained for them as vessels of wrath to do... but if God's people repent God will have the hyenas eat the baboons, and the baboons in turn will be carnivorized by the the vultures, and once there is no carrion left the vultures will cannibalize each other. RAB]

 

A few minutes of Internet research will reveal questions on authenticity, along with a few variations of the quote; even so, the principle stands. 

Update: A historical source has been found for one version of this quote. The source is Boris Bazhanov's Memoirs of Stalin's Former Secretary, published in 1992 and only available, so far as I know, in Russian. The pertinent passage, which appears near the end of chapter five, reads as follows (loosely translated with the help of Google):

"You know, comrades," says Stalin, "that I think in regard to this: I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how." --  http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/dubiousquotes/a/stalin_quote.htm. 

 

[This is much ado about nothing and is majoring on the minors and is a red herring.  Yes, this is true, but there is a Higher Reality that overrules all the pimples.  RAB]

 

Of course the choice is to choose the lesser of two evils if there is no righteous choice...  Seeing as how the whole thing is controlled behind the scenes by the George Soroses of the world, the Bilderbergers, the Illuminati, the Council on Foreign Relations, the the Trilateral Commission, yada, yada, yada, why bother? 

 

[A bit ironic to impotently point out all is controlled by the Edomites, then resort to the use of Yiddish.  But they are not in control.  God is in control, but He requires us to be faithful and oppose evil.  If you are on a river heading for a waterfall, do you stop paddling?  You either paddle for all you are worth or do your best to get off the river.  Do you simply float because God is in control?  If you do, it is only because God has ordained to remove you from this life for your faithless stupidity.  At times God commands, "stand still and see the salvation of the Lord".  However, when floating toward a waterfall, I doubt that would be one of those times.  RAB]

 

It's already been decided; this farce of an election is merely to further delude the citizens into believing their vote actually counts for something. 

 

[Again, while the farce indeed is a farce CAN YOU NOT SEE that GOD controls the farce and if His people TRULY REPENT, He can cause truth to prevail...!  Repenting entails continuing to do what is right while you are repenting.  If you are in that canoe headed for the waterfall, you don't stop paddling to confess your sins to God... you confess your sins to God WHILE YOU ARE PADDLING FOR ALL YOU ARE WORTH.  RAB]

 

But while all the people behind the scenes think they're pulling the strings, they have no idea that it's God Who's really "pulling the strings."  They are merely His puppets, being used to bring His judgment on His people.

 

[—which confession complete INVALIDATES the entire preceding argument starting before "yada, yada, yada," and ending immediately before this confession.  This was my entire point.  OF COURSE GOD IS UTTERLY SOVEREIGN AND IN COMPLETE CONTROL, but that does not give us reason to be unfaithful, not do what is right and oppose evil and act impotent... because that is faithlessness, which itself is disobedience.  I am sure the reader may be able to remember any number of movies in which someone had to act in faith... as if a bridge was out or there was no back door, or no breach in the enemy's lines, but the hero had to continue running IN FAITH until a substitute bridge materialized, or a door was busted through the rock barrier or an air assault blasted a breach in the enemy lines.  The most powerful movie I can think of, which even brings tears to my eyes as I think of it, as this is one of the most powerful movies (aside from the science fiction, but in the right mind one realizes that GOD is able to make a way through the sea)... is the movie Frequency... in which the hero had to act upon faith that when he got to the right point believing the one guiding him that the the way would materialize... even though it seemed as if there was no way out.  We are required to be faithful AS we are being obedient in the face of the impossible--and THAT is FAITH.  RAB]

 

  especially if the worser of two evils will win if not enough people vote for the lesser of two evils... and pray that God works in that lesser of two evils to humble him to do what is right--which will only happen once enough people actually humble themselves before the God of the Universe and repent of their sins against Him and actually start to obey Him instead of living as if they are their own god, with the delusion that God is merely a giant fluffy spiritual marshmallow and will never judge anyone.  Christians have lost the Fear of God because they don't understand His Holiness and that He is Just and Immutable and as Thomas Jefferson said, "I tremble for my nation when I reflect that God is Just and that His Justice cannot sleep forever" (not the words of a Deist).  Scripture says, "for our God is a consuming fire" and that He will "consume the adversaries"--the adversaries include all "Christians" who do not live as God commanded, and who are instead friends of the world and concerned with pleasing man.  "Friendship with the world is enmity with God; he who would be a friend of the world is the enemy of God."  Christians who don't live as Christ lived, and who do not stand up for what Christ stood up for, and who do not rebuke what Christ rebuked, and who do not condemn what Christ condemned, and who do not hate what Christ hated, and who do not draw lines of separation as Christ drew, deny Christ and are not Christians; even as the majority of Republicans and Democrats are neither Republicans or Democrats because 99% of them whether they realize it or not embrace the 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto.  Therefore, if they embrace Marxist, Bolshevik, Socialist communism, what are they?  So it is with the majority of "Christians".  They do not hold to the teaching of the Word of God and they follow a false christ and worship a false god invented either in their own minds, or fabricated by board vote of their corrupt denomination.  RAB 

 

-- This, of course, I completely agree with.  Modern-day Christianity is in sad shape.  But I believe that's still all in God's plan and that everything is firmly in His control. 

 

[This comment shows that you did not understand my previous comments at all.  "But" you "still believe" all is God's Plan is speaking as if I had something different, when I have NEVER said anything that could EVER be so construed.  RAB]

 

He is still blinding eyes, closing ears, hardening hearts, and sending the multitudes away.

 

[Yes, and as I have long-written, Judgment begins with the house of God and God is in the process of killing off all His faithless, sinful people EXCEPT THOSE WHO ARE TRULY REPENTING... until all who are left are those who are truly repenting.  RAB]

 

  Our job is to concentrate on our own internal evil and not on all the external evil around us (see attached for more on this, if you're interested).

 

[The key word here presumably is "concentrate"; however, since you have not clarified, it makes it seem is if you are inferring that the other can be ignored; which it cannot.  We are to be salt and light (both of which kill bacteria).  The true Church is to be assaulting the gates of Hell (which puts Hell on the DEFENSIVE).  We are to have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but we are not to ignore them, but REBUKE them.  We are to "occupy" till He comes.  Yes we are to concentrate on ourselves and personal repentance and personal obedience, but the fact is that the godless majority will not, and therefore in addition to focusing on ourselves and being obedient as God commands PART OF THAT OBEDIENCE entails exhorting others to repent and obey, and rebuking those who do not—and bringing to judgment those who violate true law.  The job of the watchman on the wall is not to quietly observe the enemy infiltrating the city, and then go to sleep while getting his own heart right with God.  RAB]

 

          A few final thoughts on voting:  W e have pretty much been brainwashed all our lives into believing that it's our "civic duty" to vote.  But where is that written?  It's not in the Constitution (which, by the way, does not apply to the citizenry but "governs only the public servants who occupy the offices it created" -- and then only in their public capacity, not in their private capacity). 

 

[Common sense really does not have to be dictated or written into the Constitution.  Neither the Constitution or the Word of God tell us to breathe air every few seconds, or to wipe our back ends after we relieve our bowels, and yet amazingly the majority of mentally capable people do so and have done so for thousands of years.  Your declaration is myopic and easily countered.

“It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of the crime and the punishment of his guilt.”  —John Philpot Curran (July 10, 1790, from a speech he delivered upon the right of election) 

Presumably he was expanding upon the declaration of Plato: “One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.”

God commands, "stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made you free and become not again entangled with the yoke of bondage".  While this command is given in spiritual application, its very wording suggests a political parallel, otherwise, the impact of the statement would not have hit home.   RAB]

 

I don't find any Scripture that says, "OK, kids, here are my laws on homosexuality; but if enough of you vote to change them, I'll reconsider my position."

 

[You certainly are correct, but again, that is massively off point because it was never a topic of discussion.  However, the fact remains, that because "good" people have allowed the wicked to rule over them, they do illegitimately "legalize" [under COLOR of law] abominations... and that brings God's Wrath on us all for allowing it, not opposing it... not speaking out against it.  Everyone in my community knows where I stand on such matters.  I am not rude; but I am not meek or silent.   RAB]

 

  Talk about a sacred cow -- the so-called "right to vote" is an idol of the heart.

 

[This is an outright falsehood and misperception.  We do not have a monarchy.  Therefore, elections are a necessity.  What is wrong is career politicians.  The purpose of elections is so that there should be no career politicians who think they are the law and that they can change it at their whim and have several decades to do it before retiring with a nice nest egg they have embezzled and amassed by bribes and "good investments" (with secret tips being handed to them at just the right time)... while at the same, time, despite their wealth, choosing to continue to rob the people and live off a bloated pension at the people's continued expense. 

The purpose of periodic elections is to flush out the chance for disease to attach to the body politic. 

Even in monarchies, there are elections of parliaments, which, I assume, were originally intended to keep the monarch honest, and not allow him to function as an oppressive dictator.  However, parliaments have degenerated into merely competing dictatorships that vie with the Monarch like hyenas fighting over a kill.  Monarchs themselves in the civilized nations of Christendom are supposed to rule in the fear of God, not do what their wicked hearts imagine and that which they selfishly desire.  While God said that they indeed would do that if our ancestors persisted in desiring a king, indeed God also said that He would judge such wicked rulers for their wickedness--and God even judged the people for not restraining their wicked monarchs.  In fact, God ordained that Israel would have a king, before they even entered the Promised Land.  But the means through which He ordained for it to come to pass was the people rejecting God in favor of one of their own brethren to rule over them (which was hypocritical, since they rebelled against Moses continually).  Regardless, God ordained for Israel to have a king, and He ordained for Israel's kings, mostly, to be selfish dictators.  However, God also declared that He would punish sinful selfish kings as well as sinful selfish commoners (both for their own sins, and for the sins of their kings whom they refused to rebuke).  Thus again the duality.  God ordained it.  The issue is, which side do you want to be on? judgment or blessing?    RAB]

 

  Even a vote against evil policies sanctions a process that is ungodly to start with.

 

[Again, this is untrue and a misperception.  God ordained rulers to be appointed or elected by various processes; simply because the process has been corrupted by wicked persons does not invalidate the concept of elections (though the secret ballot is a fool's ballot) any more than the concept of a Christian church is invalidated because the majority are corrupt and don't obey the Word of God and are merely pseudo-spiritual country clubs for deluded people who want to feel better about their guilty consciences by heaping upon themselves more delusion rather than actually repenting. RAB]

 

  I heard a politician say once that he had voted no on a bill to ban homosexuality because politics shouldn't be allowed in our bedrooms.  It never occurred to him that he had no authority to be voting on such things one way or the other.

 

[No argument here; but if evil people are elected to office, they will change the law so that people can vote to legalize immorality and vote to outlaw morality.  Since we cannot elect "nobody" then the lesser of two evils has to be elected because some will be elected (or installed) unless someone has a force large enough to prevent an election and institute true reform.  Got that in your back pocket? It's a nice idea, but in lieu of that, Trump will be elected or Hillary illegally installed.  Votes by aliens don't count because they are illegals (and their descendants will be illegals to all generations) and votes by public servants and votes by people on welfare don't count because they will continue to vote for the person who promises them more stolen goods, and that is a conflict of interests, so their votes are illegal; but they are counted anyway, though they are invalid. RAB]

 

While both candidates claim they will make America great under their "leadership," neither of them has said one word about bringing God into the picture.

 

[Again, that is true, but off point.  The only point is that Hillary or Trump will be elected.  Which would you prefer?  I of course would prefer neither.  Like the movie Brewster's Millions, I would prefer if the majority would vote, "None of the above" and thus NO ONE would be president; for I agree with Jefferson that "no government is better than bad [corrupt] government".  However, that is unfortunately not an option.  The point is, Trump or Hillary.  God will never cause a Canaanite Jezebel to repent, but only destroy her when He deems the time appropriate (where is Jehu's chariot and a pack of dogs when you need them?).  However, God may cause a Nebuchadnezzar to repent, after he is humbled, once God has used Him for His purpose to bring His people to repentance.  RAB]

 

All that being said, I will probably cast a vote for Trump, just in the interest of letting the enemy know how many of us are sick of "politics as usual."  But I am not under any delusion that my vote will count for anything. 

 

[I have never suggested that anyone's vote actually counts.  Besides, even if the votes are actually counted, the electoral college ignores them and like a corrupt Supreme Court ignores the law and rules as it wants.  The point is being faithful doing what honors God and letting God control the outcome.  The Israelites marching around Jericho in silence for 6 days, then marching on the 7th day and shouting and blowing the trumpet did not bring down the walls.  No stupidity of claiming it was due to vibrations has an ounce of validity.  If anyone thinks so I challenge him to replicate it.  March around the Vatican for 7 days, one complete circuit each day.  While the marching steps of an army do in fact cause vibrations (and for this reason armies marching over bridges are ordered to stop marching and walk out of step); but Jericho was not a bridge.  The point is God honors faithfulness and obedience.  Our actions do not control the outcome; God does.  But He commands us to perform the actions. RAB]

 

I've believed for the last few years that Hillary will be installed in office -- and that it would happen even if not a single person in this country voted for her.  I hope I'm wrong.

 

[I do too.  We had the first black and muslim in one shot... a woman would be the next step.  But again, God is in control and likewise can cause Hillary to NOT be "elected" even if EVERYONE votes for her.  Glass half-empty or glass half-full?  Our God is an awesome God.  But Christ did not many miracles in His own hometown BECAUSE OF THEIR LACK OF FAITH.  RAB]

 

  But even if Trump "wins," it won't make America great again. 

 

[I never made any such suggestion. 

"America is great because America is good. If America ever ceases to be good, she shall cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville 

American ceased to be great LONG ago... it is just that the average brain-dead, flag-waving superbowl worshipping American does not have any grasp on reality. 

Likewise, “The Bible is the source of Liberty.” Thomas Jefferson “The Bible is the secret to Great Britain’s greatness.” H.M. Queen Victoria 

Britain ceased to be good LONG ago for the same reasons. RAB]

 

He might be a speedbump to slow us down on the slippery slope we're on, but we're still going down.

 

[That is ALL I have ever suggested, in addition to the fact that if he is elected and if God's people TRULY repent, God can humble Trump TO BECOME a good leader; not merely pretend to be one while continuing to destroy the nation and enable the Israelis and continuing to enrich himself and the other self-declared elite. RAB]

 

OK, I've rambled on long enough now.  Please feel free to pass this on to anyone you think might want to join in the discussion.

 

[You weren't rambling... you offered some very valid thoughts; however much of them, however true, were off point, due primarily to not having been in the loop to understand my plethora of emails on this topic to understand my position and not misinterpret what I said.  All valid except a few major faux pas, such as Fenton's spurious translation or the notion of someone idolizing being able to vote (which only a brain-dead person does, and we are not really discussing people who are brain dead, are we? for they will ever remain in their condition and may God either unplug them or if they are His people, may He bring them out of their perpetual vegetative coma). 

Honeybees are for some reason easily distracted by smoke.  People at a magician show are fooled by smoke and mirrors.  Truth is always truth, but truth is rendered irrelevant in an invalid situation. 

We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but spiritual powers, etc., is not a Gnostic mentality that infers that we should ignore the physical world.  The passage is one of degrees, not binary declaration.  The passage is not saying that the physical enemy does not exist; the passage is saying that spiritual powers are the real seat of such physical evil, and the solution is for the godly in the physical realm to also realize the seat of their power and authority in God.  It is not an issue of mind over matter, it is an issue of faith in God's Promises, while being obedient and faithful, in realizing that God is greater than all and that He will bless and deliver IF WE TRULY HAVE FAITH (and faith without works is dead). 

It is not being off point to merely mention other issues when those other issues illustrations. Being off point is when one counters the point of discussion with some entirely different point that is invalid and is not a governing factor of the discussion, as if it is the answer and changes the point.  The point isn't who has donated to Trump's campaign, or whether Trump is being honest, or what color underwear he wears and if his underwear matches his tie.  The point is come the "elections" we will have Trump or Hillary (if Obama doesn't declare martial law and claim the dictatorship he has been acting out anyway). 

The point is, if someone is a registered voter and has voted in the past, a vote for anyone other than Trump, or no vote at all, is a vote for Hillary. 

The point is though the elections are fraudulent and corrupt, God is in control and IF WE DO WHAT IS RIGHT TO OPPOSE EVIL, that God may deliver in a plethora of ways that we cannot even begin to fantasize about. 

The point is that we really don't know what Trump will do--but we DO know what Hillary will do; we do know she is guilty of treason and has created a plethora of real crimes (not merely "white collar" crimes), and we do know that the Constitution does not permit a woman to be elected president and we do know that GOD has commanded us to only establish a man who is our brethren to be our ruler. 

Those are the points. 

All other points are side issues though while they are important, have no bearing on the fact that the issue is Trump or Hillary.   RAB]